[09:54] Winnie Soon : being kicked out haha Martino. You are on the listening mode [09:56] martino : oh yes the end session button? :) [09:57] Winnie Soon : hi paula [09:57] Winnie Soon : morning [09:57] magda : hello [09:57] Winnie Soon : hello magda :) [09:57] magda : :) [09:57] paula : hi,morning [09:57] magda : i can't hear anyting is that ok? [09:58] magda : hi paula [09:58] Femke : hey goodmorning [09:58] Winnie Soon : hi nynne [09:58] magda : :) hi femke and martino and all [09:59] Femke : magda :-) [09:59] nynnelucca : good morning:) [09:59] Winnie Soon : @nynne, you are on the listening mode. so would be good to choose microphone mode when you join again so that you can both speak and listen [09:59] magda : hi nynne [09:59] Marloes : Hello and good morning everyone! [09:59] Winnie Soon : morning [09:59] nynnelucca : arh sure [09:59] magda : :) [09:59] nynnelucca : hi [10:00] geoffcox : hello [10:00] Femke : today's schedule / script is here [10:00] Winnie Soon : hi theresa and tim, morning. I see you are on the listening mode..would be great if you sign in again and choose the microphone mode, so you can speak and listen [10:00] Femke : https://pad.constantvzw.org/p/teaching-as-publishing [10:00] Tim Fransen : Hello Everyone [10:00] Jeannette Ginslov : hi [10:00] Winnie Soon : hello all morning :) [10:01] annet : goodmorning! [10:01] Winnie Soon : mroning annet [10:01] malthe stavning erslev : Morning! [10:01] simon terrill : Hi [10:01] Winnie Soon : hello soren [10:03] Christian Ulrik Andersen : Morning - had to help my son going online for teaching :-) [10:03] eric snodgrass : morning all [10:03] Femke : hey eric :-) [10:03] Winnie Soon : @annet can you hear us? [10:03] eric snodgrass : hey femke! looking forward to today :) [10:04] Tim Fransen : No audio with Chrome ... but okay with Firefox [10:04] nynnelucca : my sound is gone... [10:04] magda : yes [10:04] Theresa Kneppers : yes [10:04] Marloes : I can hear you reall well [10:04] Jeannette Ginslov : yes all good [10:04] Tim Fransen : yes [10:04] paula : yes [10:04] geoffcox : Yes all good [10:04] malthe stavning erslev : good here [10:04] Christian Ulrik Andersen : Yes. OK [10:04] magda : nynne seems to have no sound [10:06] nynnelucca : it's back on! :) [10:09] Femke : infraductions! [10:13] Winnie Soon : HI Piere and Tim morning, i see you are on the listening mode. But if you want to speak as well, you may log out and join again to speak (choose microphone rather than listen mode) [10:14] Pierre Huyghebaert : Thanks :) [10:14] Winnie Soon : great Pierre :) [10:15] Femke : (oeps) [10:17] Winnie Soon : oh yes blackboard collaborate (forgot the name haha) [10:22] Jeannette Ginslov : Sorry should have invited next speaker [10:22] martino : np :) [10:28] martino : maybe typing? [10:28] martino : ah [10:28] martino : :) [10:35] Theresa Kneppers : Yes! I went [10:35] Femke : https://pad.constantvzw.org/p/teaching-as-publishing [10:38] martino : https://pad.constantvzw.org/p/distant-elephant [10:38] eric snodgrass : whoever wrote post on the image now reminds me of the struggle over infrastructure happening now in the us around postal services [10:44] Pierre Huyghebaert : It's quite beautifull and powerfull, this new version of the elephat! [10:44] Winnie Soon : thank you! this is really good [10:44] Pierre Huyghebaert : Thanks! [10:44] annet : good start!! [10:44] eric snodgrass : really great letter [10:45] eric snodgrass : <3 [10:49] martino : some traces http://media.constantvzw.org/wefts/120/ [10:49] martino : (of networks with an attitude) [10:50] martino : and notes on the etherbox: https://networksofonesown.constantvzw.org/etherbox/manual.html [11:07] martino : general description at https://catalogue.rietveldacademie.nl/eg/opac/home [11:07] martino : testing website at http://jekyll.all-syste.ms/ [11:15] martino : the different broadcasts! https://issue.xpub.nl/12/ [11:20] Winnie Soon : yes :) look forward..he is coming (virtually to AU) soon [11:21] magda : yes [11:21] Winnie Soon : yes [11:21] Marloes : yes [11:21] Pierre Huyghebaert : yes [11:21] nynnelucca : yes! [11:21] Winnie Soon : lol [11:21] Winnie Soon : <3 [11:21] eric snodgrass : lo [11:21] Jeannette Ginslov : yes [11:21] Tim Fransen : yep [11:21] annet : yes [11:21] Theresa Kneppers : yes [11:21] eric snodgrass : okokok [11:23] martino : this is the link we 'll use https://www.yourworldoftext.com/teachingpublishing [11:27] Femke : grrreat mapping [11:30] Femke : ;we'll start a not-breakout session at 11:40 [11:36] Femke : back 'here' in 5m [11:41] Winnie Soon : + gdpr [11:41] magda : you are not even supported if you are on linux computer [11:41] Winnie Soon : oh right [11:41] Winnie Soon : i can't have any support VPN, print on my linux machine [11:41] magda : so can't connect to printers, etc. lol [11:42] Christian Ulrik Andersen : We have what is called "DEIC" / Danish E-Infrastructure Company" (they host / cloud services, etc. and ensure security).. which is a good thing, often, but also limiting [11:42] Winnie Soon : but u have also discussed with deic about supporting BBB? (soren?) [11:42] magda : i am using my own computer because i am on linux. and use uni comp to connect on zoom and print and to use other proprietory soft [11:42] annet : uva only supports microsoft, but there is a large mac community which is very active - also at times taking on linux questions [11:43] Christian Ulrik Andersen : Deic are often open to these things... e.g. offering own cloud, becuause of demand [11:45] geoffcox : especially if the institution is talking about decolonising the curriculum [11:48] Christian Ulrik Andersen : There is a tendency to choose "what comes in a box" - in the expectation that if it is a "plug and play" solution, then teaching will work better / we (as educators) more readily manage/accept the quick move to online teaching.... but we tend to forget many things(which is pointed at in this conversation) [11:48] martino : https://pad.constantvzw.org/p/teaching-as-publishing at line 16.. [11:52] Winnie Soon : ha ha yes [11:53] eric snodgrass : haha nice [11:53] Winnie Soon : always sharp cut [11:53] magda : i forgot about this!!! [11:53] magda : hahah [11:53] Marloes : virtual flocking [11:55] Femke : back 'here' 12.15 [11:55] Winnie Soon : ok [11:56] Søren Pold : Security issue - not allowed access to riseup. [11:57] geoffcox : we also have a problem with hosting the video chat at varia [12:01] Winnie Soon : we are using hackmd [12:01] Femke : ok super. can you leave the address in the pad? [12:01] Femke : the 'king' pad [12:02] Femke : so we can all find back your notes [12:02] Femke : geoff, go for meet.jit.si/teaching-as-publishing ? [12:03] Femke : soeren you can use any of the other etherpad installs [12:03] Femke : of course [12:03] Femke : and jitsi [12:04] Femke : just leave a trace of where you are going [12:12] Femke : ok a few more minutes, than we make a round of pads before breaking for lunch [12:16] Winnie Soon : hbshould we back at 1215? [12:16] Femke : ok it's the moment [12:17] geoffcox : we are back [12:17] nynnelucca : yes, back [12:17] Winnie Soon : group 1 is back i think [12:18] Christian Ulrik Andersen : I'm back [12:18] geoffcox : we set up our own room as a solution to hosting issue [12:18] martino : group 2 is ignoring the bell and it's good to see the result of tool choices [12:18] Søren Pold : yes we're back [12:18] martino : :D [12:18] Jeannette Ginslov : ok [12:18] Marloes : back! [12:18] magda : i didn't hear any bells, lol [12:20] Femke : https://hackmd.io/_xj2-IXAQE6iYazAu42wlQ [12:22] eric : anyone grow up with a school intercom system in their school? 11am... a little jingle... message from the principle... [12:22] Femke : yes, we had the left overs of this! [12:22] Femke : was used for schoolradio [12:22] eric : fun [12:23] geoffcox : this is soft control - much more effective disciplinary mechanism [12:24] nynnelucca : we could 'raise hands' in blackboard [12:26] Jeannette Ginslov : Yes its intimidating …. Needing to constantly update our skills. [12:27] martino : but maybe this would be difficult with a more generous aspect of skill sharing [12:27] martino : less difficult* [12:27] eric : if we are looking to improve bbb as a tool, i wonder if we could get rid of the mic/headphone option as a default for entering the room. always causes problems for first time users [12:28] eric : or is there an option to turn this off? [12:28] Søren Pold : I agree, there's a balance and a negotiation that will have to come into the picture. [12:28] geoffcox : and this is another form of alienation (easy-to-use I mean) [12:29] Femke : yes, thanks geoff [12:29] Søren Pold : Yes definitely. [12:29] magda : user-friendly alienation :) [12:29] paula : a conversation to have with the students also, as it is a meta-skill [12:30] paula : to reflect critically on the tech tools being used [12:31] Femke : https://stuff2233.club/padlife/p/teaching-as-publishing [12:31] Femke : group 2 [12:32] Femke : a classic: [12:32] Søren Pold : Group 1: https://hackmd.io/_xj2-IXAQE6iYazAu42wlQ?edit [12:32] Femke : "a feminist server tries hard not to apologize for not always being available" [12:33] Marloes : <3 [12:34] Femke : scaling sideways [12:34] Jeannette Ginslov : scaling across [12:34] Femke : ah yes [12:35] geoffcox : rethinking scale (see section in anna tsing's book) [12:37] Femke : education-as-a-service meets software-as-a-service [12:37] eric : yes, and concept of friction in relation to scale [12:38] Femke : https://pad.vvvvvvaria.org/teaching-as-publishing + https://videobelpilot.surf.nl/teaching-as-publishing [12:38] Jeannette Ginslov : Thanks Geoff [12:41] Femke : link? [12:41] geoffcox : we ended up with padlet only [12:41] geoffcox : exactly [12:42] magda : i disagree , maybe the scale is different, and that is helpful, but then it trickles out [12:42] Pierre Huyghebaert : Priceless that we can test bbb with constant! [12:43] Winnie Soon : yes i think it changes things definately... [12:44] geoffcox : utlimately we seem to be atlking about better pedagogy [12:44] martino : yes! a different one for sure [12:44] annet : a fantastic tactic!! [12:44] martino : that does not separate technical issues from its social counterpart [12:45] annet : which they may actually start to understand [12:45] Pierre Huyghebaert : yes, quite powerfull tactic i think [12:45] Christian Ulrik Andersen : This argument might work better in a UK context. [12:45] annet : would it be possible to actually insert this into the letter? [12:46] annet : :-) [12:46] Pierre Huyghebaert : you're welcome [12:46] Femke : http://pads.osp.kitchen/p/teaching-as-publishing [12:49] eric : thx marloes! [12:49] annet : well put ! [12:49] Christian Ulrik Andersen : Thanks. you did really well Marloes :-) [12:49] Pierre Huyghebaert : thx marloes, and yes always temporary... [12:50] geoffcox : temporary autonomous zone [12:50] Femke : temporary interdependent zones [12:50] Jeannette Ginslov : worldings within a worlding [12:50] eric : these really sharp and accessible explanations of the need for rethinking the kind of infrastructures we are giving into (like the letter and the rectangles video) are really helpful as infrastructuring supports in themselves [12:50] Christian Ulrik Andersen : (I agree, Eric) [12:51] Femke : 13:45 back [12:51] Christian Ulrik Andersen : ... and also for addressing management. [12:51] eric : can be shared as really good starting points for discussions with colleagues and students [12:52] Femke : terminal, commandline [12:53] Femke : anyone with windows connecting today? [12:53] malthe stavning erslev : here [12:53] Pierre Huyghebaert : haha me also on windows today [12:53] malthe stavning erslev : yes sure [12:53] Pierre Huyghebaert : (and curious to do terminal on it!) [12:53] Christian Ulrik Andersen : I can find the terminal - but not a professional user of commands :-) (by far) [12:54] Tim Fransen : sure [12:54] soon : sounds great :) thanks! [12:54] Femke : 13:45 start again [12:54] Søren Pold : I know MS-DOS! [12:54] annet : thanks so far! [12:54] Tim Fransen : see you soon ... can use terminal [12:54] Marloes : thanks !!! [12:54] Jeannette Ginslov : Thanks [12:54] geoffcox : thank [12:54] Pierre Huyghebaert : tx! [12:54] magda : thanks [12:55] Femke : ok signal if you are not sure about your tool situation [12:55] Femke : if you don't know how to find the terminal [12:55] Femke : if you are on windows [13:02] martino : so for windows users, the software that provides a way to connect to the server with a shell interface is called putty. you can download it here: https://www.putty.org/ [13:03] martino : please try to install it, and let us know if it doesn't work out! [13:40] malthe stavning erslev : installed, but no idea if it works [13:40] malthe stavning erslev : but it looks like its running ok [13:40] Pierre Huyghebaert : the same, i investigate [13:40] Pierre Huyghebaert : it ask a host name or ip, so it's probably a good sign :) [13:41] Pierre Huyghebaert : i mean Putty ask a hostname to open it [13:41] Femke : ah yes good [13:41] Femke : we'll get to that, for now that's it [13:42] Pierre Huyghebaert : :) [13:43] Femke : I think? Let's see [13:43] soon : back [13:44] nynnelucca : me too [13:46] martino : uhm i dont hear anything [13:46] soon : yes can't hear anything [13:46] soon : yes good [13:47] Jeannette Ginslov : can't hear anything [13:47] Tim Fransen : hi [13:47] Christian Ulrik Andersen : Hi [13:47] annet : hi [13:47] Søren Pold : hi [13:47] soon : yes [13:47] Søren Pold : yes [13:47] Tim Fransen : yep [13:47] geoffcox : yes [13:47] Marloes : yes [13:52] Welcome to on-linePublishing!

For help on using BigBlueButton see these (short) tutorial videos.

To join the audio bridge click the phone button. Use a headset to avoid causing background noise for others.

This server is running BigBlueButton... [14:29] Søren Pold : back again [14:29] martino : back .. :) [14:30] Marloes : are we swithing? [14:30] Marloes : switching [14:30] martino : well technically we can stay in the same call [14:30] Marloes : oh oops [14:31] Christian Ulrik Andersen : Where did you all go? https://vc.autistici.org/teaching-as-publishing [14:31] martino : as we will switch mode of connecting but with the same group [14:31] Marloes : i am coming back :) [14:31] Marloes : (ooooooops) [15:03] soon : back [15:03] martino : bbback [15:04] Femke : yeah [15:04] Christian Ulrik Andersen : Am I here? [15:04] Femke : where am i [15:04] Christian Ulrik Andersen : Therefore I am? [15:04] Femke : and who [15:04] Søren Pold : No [15:04] Marloes : who and why [15:05] eric : was it all a dream?? [15:05] malthe stavning erslev : well that was fun [15:05] Femke : it is [15:05] Christian Ulrik Andersen : Marloes is still in the terminal window - wait"! [15:05] Marloes : no nooooooo don't kill the terminal, i'm still there [15:05] Marloes : haha no i left [15:06] magda : can we speak? [15:06] martino : please ^^ [15:06] magda : i mean, i don't think we can [15:06] magda : also i am lagging [15:06] soon : in a dream now [15:07] Femke : 15:15 back [15:07] Femke : ? [15:07] soon : ok [15:07] Marloes : ok! [15:07] magda : yes [15:07] Femke : breathe! [15:14] malthe stavning erslev : i am breathing [15:15] soon : :) [15:16] soon : a bit glitchy sounnd [15:16] Marloes : yes here too [15:16] soon : reenter? [15:16] magda : i think better now [15:17] soon : now is good [15:21] Rosie Hermon : sorry was that to me? [15:21] soon : i feel less confusing with command lines.. [15:24] eric : is it helpful to think of this experiment as having some echoes with the radio alice example from 1977-8? [15:24] magda : there is a different speed of engaging with these interfaces. not just really a difference between gui and command but also to experience the network time and the speed that it allows different connections . [15:25] Christian Ulrik Andersen : I like the idea/experience of "co-creating" knowledge. But this is perhaps more difficult when participants have different entry levels? - e.g., as when you are "an observer" as Rosie puts it. [15:25] geoffcox : I think both expereiences reinforce that whatever tech we use it is built on top of other network structures and topologies [15:25] eric : yes [15:26] geoffcox : that allow for certain relations - better or worse [15:26] magda : but this is a question of how this 'observer' is defined in the practice. because we are all there in the space and there are different ways of engaging and observing is one of these ways [15:26] Femke : taking turns [15:27] geoffcox : effort is taken to stop certain kinds of intercation and encourage others [15:29] annet : how to encourage/ develop productive habits.. [15:29] magda : i notice that when enagging with such interfaces and spaces for the first time we start with playing for some, and frustration for others, but then different temporality develops and people start to make space for each other. at least that has been my experience in common practice or playin gpractice too. [15:29] Søren Pold : It became clear how it differs from platforms and social media, where we all users and exploited as such. [15:30] Femke : BIND? [15:31] Søren Pold : Negotiating use becomes a social process [15:31] martino : BIND=is it ok for everyone to record the discussion from now on? [15:31] Søren Pold : yes [15:32] Femke : you can UNBIND at any moment [15:32] magda : yes [15:32] soon : ok [15:32] Marloes : that was something that came up this morning, how recording can silence some or change behaviour in a group, but yes sure :) [15:32] malthe stavning erslev : but we did gather around a single task in our group - we connected to the jitsi, for instance - and in that we both gave each other space so that the thing could be done, but it also of course resulted in a single (or a couple) or us taking control while others waited. [15:33] malthe stavning erslev : but that also meant that the power relationship was streamlined and most of us became 'passive' or 'observers' [15:33] soon : yes @malthe [15:34] Femke : active observation [15:34] Marloes : running commentary [15:34] magda : unstable connections [15:34] Femke : attach - detach [15:34] malthe stavning erslev : next week i am co-hosting a workshop on 'mob programming' where multiple people code the same software using only one keyboard and mouse, but being in the same room. Makes me curious what this kind of software can do in relation to such a practice [15:35] paula : it would have been useful to have received instructions for the afternoon activity [15:36] paula : its good to drift online but considering we're not all terminal users [15:36] Marloes : sorry group 2 if I got a bit too carried away with the rick-rolling :/ [15:36] Femke : UNBIND [15:37] Christian Ulrik Andersen : I experienced different things. ... the pedagogy of share exploration... a different "user experience" (being part of a multiple user)... but also a "live" experience of a layered infrastructure (we were 'live' in the same space, but in different interfaces - Marloes or was it Martino even tried to communicate to the other side) [15:37] Christian Ulrik Andersen : (it was Marloes) [15:37] magda : oh Marloes that sounds fun! [15:37] Marloes : yes (blush) [15:38] Marloes : i should have explained [15:38] magda : but we were doing other promisuous things [15:38] magda : we were looking deep into ourselves [15:38] Søren Pold : The way you're defined as user of course makes the use situation understandable, but also makes it clear how the user is used [15:38] magda : the server soul that was us [15:38] malthe stavning erslev : we became promiscuous [15:38] Marloes : did you find our artwork? [15:38] magda : the blue moon? [15:38] Marloes : The mindblowing critical thinking png [15:38] malthe stavning erslev : did you find the forbidden smileys? (they are also a forkbomb) [15:39] soon : hahaha [15:39] magda : it is interesting how chat function feels quite nice [15:39] Marloes : no oh pity [15:39] magda : instaead of speaking [15:39] magda : and video [15:39] Femke : yes typing is nice [15:39] martino : call fatigue :P [15:39] soon : @christian, yes the thinkingn of liveness and what condition that liveness is interesting [15:40] magda : are there emoticons on bbb? [15:40] Søren Pold : :-) [15:40] soon : :D [15:40] magda : hahaha [15:40] Marloes : I really liked that we were 2 groups on the same machine, not separated at all but it was hard to communicate in real time [15:40] Marloes : between groups [15:41] malthe stavning erslev : < it's the return of the bovine! > ----------------------- \ ^__^ \ (oo)\_______ (__)\ )\/\ ||----w | || || [15:41] soon : at some point i was confused is group 1 writing or group 2 [15:41] martino : some haunted presence [15:41] martino : poltergeist-server [15:41] Femke : https://www.yourworldoftext.com/teachingpublishing [15:45] geoffcox : not sure it's richness - more a confusion of tongues [15:47] Søren Pold : a bit like the browser war of the 90s [15:47] Christian Ulrik Andersen : It is not just about finding other solutions, but realizing that in many cases we are already using other infrastructures.( phone calls emails etc, are frequently mentioned in our shared list). [15:48] eric : i have been quite happy with the amount of "effective" "alternative" tools available for this moment and how low key (in a good way), useable and friendly many of these tools are [15:48] Marloes : Once licenses have been purchased... [15:48] soon : also interesting in how different tools shape a particilar way of thinking [15:48] Marloes : capital is fixed [15:49] Søren Pold : agree that we now have a situation where decisions have been made. But of course privacy is also part of it. [15:49] magda : i think it is interesting to see Pierre's comment on the use of tools in his institution which, as he says, was reluctant to use any tools and then moved to google [15:50] Søren Pold : Paradoxically Zoom is the only solution that guarantees privacy according to Danish authorities [15:50] annet : indeed! [15:51] Christian Ulrik Andersen : I think questions of gdpr, and also bureaucracy of teaching planning / admin (counting student activity, etc.) are some reasons that prevent experimentation. [15:51] Søren Pold : However I also remember when we made our own software... [15:53] magda : i think martino's experience at RA is quite encouraging [15:53] Christian Ulrik Andersen : @søren yes, and then the student programmer left.... I think, the memory of those situations also scares off managers/make them reluctant to choose FLOSS [15:53] Marloes : XPUB is an island within the aademy [15:53] geoffcox : I gues if it's built into the course descriptions then you have to do it [15:53] Marloes : unfortunately [15:54] geoffcox : like at Piet zwart [15:54] Marloes : It would be nice if it would bleed over into other departments [15:54] Marloes : lurk is 2 ppl doing unpaid work [15:54] martino : yes I imagine in software studies environment there should be some arguments around to include it in the course descriptions :) [15:55] Femke : yes [15:57] geoffcox : it's an argument for the research group (CSNI) too, but we are only just beginning to do this [15:57] soon : or may be how we start thinking temp infrastructure [15:58] Marloes : TAZ again :) [15:58] soon : but also all maintenance, experimentation and figuring out [15:58] martino : yes! more tmp. servers [15:59] Marloes : @soon exactly! And acknowledging and making visible (and remunerated) the care and time that goes into this work [16:00] Marloes : (& hardware even if it's in Frankfurt) [16:00] Christian Ulrik Andersen : At AU we have a whole center that researches blended learning etc. https://tdm.au.dk/ They used to be the ones to connect in our institution ... however, they can no longer find funding for experimentation either (hosting and supporting other things than corporate/boxed solutions). It has to do with the organizational infrastructure. [16:02] martino : pity [16:02] Femke : division of labour is dangerous [16:02] geoffcox : I'm very sorry but I will need to leave the session. It's been great but I have another appointmnet. Thanks to all ! (esp. Femke and Martino) [16:03] soon : thanks geoff [16:03] martino : thanks Geoff for joining us! [16:03] Tim Fransen : See ya geoff [16:03] malthe stavning erslev : I have to go, but thanks so much for this! It was equally inspirational and confusing, yet in the best way possible. As I started out by saying, this goes far beyond teaching. See you! [16:03] Søren Pold : Will have to go as well. Another zoom meeting ;-) [16:04] Søren Pold : And thanks a lot! It was inspiring. [16:04] soon : thanks malthe and soren [16:04] Christian Ulrik Andersen : I think a disc on how to create temporary soultions for experimentation is good (at least for us at AU) [16:04] Marloes : Me too. Thank you so much, Femke, Martino, & Winnie for organising! It was very interesting :) [16:04] annet : same here... but thanks it was very inspiring! and looking forward to the next follow up :-) [16:04] Christian Ulrik Andersen : thanks to all of you [16:04] soon : thanks all [16:04] Rosie Hermon : Thank you [16:04] eric : the issue has to be pushed from all angles. some friends and i are working on a letter critiquing last week's 4S conference and their use of technology [16:04] Theresa Kneppers : Thank you [16:04] nynnelucca : thank you! [16:05] magda : thank you winnie for organising this [16:05] eric : thank you all! [16:05] magda : thanks femke and martino this was really great [16:05] paula : thank you, stay in touch :) [16:05] eric : great workshop f+m [16:05] Tim Fransen : Thanks Martino, Femke, everyone...